An interview with Anthony Thomas of the Antic Pub Collective.
I recently noticed that a number of pubs in Lewisham appear to have undergone a miraculous transformation. One which I visited after a long absence was the Royal Albert, New Cross Road , SE14. It is a fantastic Victorian Grade II listed building and one which I had often passed and thought ‘nice building but shame about the beer’. At one stage known as the Paradise Bar, its use was even officially changed to a nightclub, much to the dismay of local residents. However, my visit there in 2009 revealed a traditional pub serving real ale and good food, with home made pork pies and sausage rolls displayed under glass bells on the bar. It was now the sort of establishment which anyone would welcome at the end of their street. At about the same time I noticed that the Alpha Club in Brockley Road , SE4, which I always assumed was a private members club in a pair of converted Victorian shops and very unlikely to stock real ale had become ‘The Jam Circus’. It was now a proper, if unusually named pub, offering real ale, Belgian bottled beers and stand up comedy in a quirky 1960s themed room at the rear of the bar. I discovered that the company associated with the remarkable transformation of these two licensed establishments was called Antic. Then, earlier this year, I found that the vacant and boarded up Coach and Horses in Lewisham High Street, SE13 wasn’t as I feared going to be demolished and replaced by a block of flats. The original tiled front of this 1930s pub had suddenly been exposed by the removal of later cladding, while a large banner on the building proclaimed the fact that the pub had been acquired by Antic and would soon be opening as the Ravensbourne Arms. Checking out their Website at www.antic-ltd.com, I saw that they’re based in Camberwell and style themselves a Pub Collective rather than a Pub Company. They currently have an impressive collection of 16 Pubs spread across London , but mainly south of the River, with four more in addition to the Ravensbourne Arms in the pipeline as well as a new brewery in Camberwell. I then made the startling discovery that Antic was run by someone I knew, although I never suspected that he was involved with reviving the fortunes of ailing London pubs. His name is Anthony Thomas.
Realising, that many other CAMRA members would want to know more about Antic, I approached them to see if I could get an interview with Anthony. I soon got a message asking me to meet him at the Rising Sun in Tottenham Court Road at 6.30 on a Wednesday evening. I arrived early and after a short while I saw the distinctive figure of Anthony approaching. He is tall, slim, with longish black hair and beard. After we greet, I notice Anthony casting an eye over the interior of this opulent Victorian gin palace, no doubt thinking of how it could be improved should Punch Taverns ever decide to sell it! Just as I only recently made the connection between Anthony and Antic, he did not know of my active involvement with CAMRA’s South East London Branch, so I fill him in on this. As the pub is by now getting quite crowded we decide to take our pints of Shepherd Neame Spitfire into the street to continue the interview in the fading sunlight of a warm spring evening.
One of my first questions for Anthony was about the origin of the name. Although superficially a pun on his own name he refers me to the dictionary definition of ‘antic’ which can mean any one of a number of things such as ‘odd, ludicrous, whimsical, a merry-Andrew or a buffoon’. While the company, like any other, can only survive if it makes a profit, it is also about having fun and the Antic name is intended to reflect this. Similarly, Antic prefers to be called a Collective and not a Company. This is not just because of the negative connotations associated with Pub Co’s but because the organisation comprises a collection of very disparate pubs, all run with that objective of having fun and providing fun. Unlike Wetherspoons, Antic do not have a brand image. Instead they have pubs such as the Jam Circus with its stand up comedy and 60s retro look and the Royal Albert where real ale is served in jugs as opposed to the now ubiquitous straight glass. Anthony also admitted that he would like to introduce metal tankards if he could be sure they wouldn’t be stolen. In terms of entertainment, Anthony is a traditionalist and would like to secure the involvement of local Morris sides to entertain customers with dancing on summer evenings. He particularly likes brass bands and would very much like to find a local one to sponsor. They could certainly provide the required razzmatazz for the launch of new pubs!
We now turn our attention to real ale and I ask Anthony whether he would expect all Antic Pubs to stock real ale. His answer is an unequivocal ‘yes’. However, some pubs have restricted cellar space which limits the numbers of real ales which can be sold to only two or three. On the other hand, pubs, such as the newly acquired Red Lion, High Road, Leytonstone, E11 have the potential to supply real ale from a large cellar serving a large number of hand pumps. I ask Anthony whether any manager of an Antic pub has ever said to him that he or she was unable to sell real ale because ‘there was no demand’. Anthony assures me that this has never happened and if it did he would clearly need to take a look at the pub in question to see what it was doing wrong. Anthony is certainly aware of that vital statistic that real ale is the only sector of the brewing industry currently exhibiting growth.
On the subject of whether any pubs in the collective have ever failed, Anthony admits that since its foundation in 1999 some mistakes were made in the early days. At that stage they were still finding their way and they didn’t always get it right. He recalls a pub in Peckham which they acquired on a three year lease from a Pub co. He can no longer remember the name but all their attempts to turn it round failed. The lease was not renewed and the pub use of the building subsequently ceased. However, with the passage of time comes experience. Anthony does not consider they would make that sort of mistake again.
Following local concerns that the Forest Hill Tavern, Dartmouth Road , SE23, may be redeveloped and knowing that one of the new Antic pubs will be a conversion of the Forest Hill Post Office in Dartmouth Rd , I asked Anthony if he had looked at the possibility of taking on the existing pub. Anthony replies that they did and that taking over a vacant pub is normally always preferable to creating a new one. While they obviously wanted a presence in Forest Hill, the size of the premises and its position in the town centre and cost of acquisition are important considerations. In this case the owner had had planning permission refused for a residential conversion of the upper floors of the building. However, even expectations of residential development can sometimes put pubs beyond the reach of genuine pub operators. Antic therefore considered that the best option for the collective in this case was to establish a new pub to be called the ‘Sylvan Post’ which should open this summer.
One of the other new Antic pubs will be the Greyhound, Kirkdale, Sydenham, SE26, which local residents fought hard to ensure, was retained as part of a proposed redevelopment scheme. I asked Anthony if he knew anything about the Victorian wall tiles which the developer has told residents are in storage and will be reinstated on completion of the development. Anthony confirms that this is his understanding but he has not seen the tiles and does not know what condition they are in. However, Antic would always fully support the retention of original internal features and fittings.
This now brings me to the only hint of controversy linked to an Antic pub which has come to my attention. The Old Red Lion Kennington Park Road , SE11, is a Grade II listed building included in the CAMRA London Inventory of Historic Pub Interiors. I had heard complaints about internal alterations being carried out without listed building consent. Anthony is surprised that the refurbishment works at the premises, which he thought had been minimal, would have needed listed building consent. However, if any harm has been done to the listed building Antic would of course co-operate fully with the local authority in rectifying this.
Turning from selling real ale to making it I ask Anthony about Antic’s recent purchase of brewing equipment from Meantime. Yes, the Collective proposes to make its entry into the microbrewery sector towards the end of the year with a new brewery located at their Camberwell HQ. A brewer who started his career with the Fox and Firkin chain has been recruited. According to Anthony, it is not intended to limit production to the supply of Antic pubs. Instead, production will be of a scale which will enable a number of real ales to be offered on the open market to other outlets, including, of course, beer festivals. One of Anthony’s ambitions would be to brew a good quality, popular real ale which would sell, at current prices, for about £2.40 a pint in Antic pubs.
With the sun now setting over the West End and the football on the television inside the pub giving rise to quite a sizable crowd, the interview draws to a close and we say our goodbyes. I leave the Rising Sun with a feeling that it is not all doom and gloom on the pub front in London and that not every pub that closes is destined to become a block of flats or a betting shop. Anyone with any further queries or suggestions for the Antic collective could always try the ‘Bosses’ Ear’ section of their Website. No doubt there will be quite a few CAMRA members with boarded up pubs near them in need of a sympathetic new owner who appreciates real ale!
Jan Mondrzejewski
South East London CAMRA
May 2011
